I persuaded XN to get therapy at the beginning of this year, because he was unhappy and had "anger management issues" (my polite way of telling him he was a nutcase).
He saw a psychologist for an initial assessment and paid for himself to have CBT.
The cognitive behavioural therapist diagnosed him with a "stress disorder" and taught him CBT techniques to reprogramme his negative thinking and his stress & anxiety.
Funnily enough...this gave him an ideal opportunity to get lots of supply from both me & his mum.
During one of our last conversations, I'd been worried about him so had called him (he'd been down the day before but I deliberately hadn't called him that evening because I didn't want to stifle him).
So...I called him on the Saturday morning and he said he was about to phone his mum and ask her to go food shopping with him because he couldn't face the stress of buying food for himself. He said he didn't know what to buy.
I gave him a talking to and told him that this is the kind of thing (having his mum take him shopping) that he ends up beating himself about up after.
[It turns out the real reason he'd been down the day before was because he'd spent about 2 hours talking to the girl he'd started idealising in work and he didn't think she fancied him so his ego was bruised - I found this out when I saw his "anxiety book" that he'd left open by my side of the bed when I went to stay with him.]
Anyway, this guy is:
- 35
- earning well over £50k in a responsible job in the NHS
- coping so well with aforementioned job that he wins a £15k leadership award to spend on management courses
- living on his own (at last! He'd finally moved out of his parents' a few months before after living there for 6 years)
- managed to book a 2 year round the world trip
- managed to travel and cope quite well on aforementioned round the world trip
And then he started to claim that he couldn't make it round the supermarket to buy food so he had to get his mum to come and hold his hand!
I believed his BS at the time. And it was all cr@p. He just wanted a way to get attention from his darling mummy because he wasn't living at home anymore and his so-called "stress disorder" gave him the perfect excuse. And there was me feeling sorry for him too when all the while he'd been feeling down because the girl in work he fancied didn't seem to fancy him.....
Duh! Palm slap to forehead!
Tuesday, 29 September 2009
Monday, 28 September 2009
I was talking tonight to a friend who works with XN. I'd avoided her for a while because I didn't want to hear about him but we spoke tonight and did venture into talking about him.
She said that she'd been in a meeting with him and a secretary had come in to arrange a meeting with him. He'd shouted at her something like "For God's sake woman, get out!" and got up and slammed the door in her face.
My friend said she was shocked and uncomfortable.
She said that he's been like this more and more in work lately and she also said that he's still coming into work every Sunday. He used to do that when he was with me because he'd get stressed about his job or he couldn't bear to be on his own. If I was busy, or after I'd moved away, he'd go into work every Sunday without fail. Which I think is a bit sad really. It's not like he's got tons and tons of work to do. He just had nothing else to do.
She also said that she was in a meeting with him & another guy and they were both trying to show off by slipping philosophical references into their sentences. XN did philosophy at university and used to try and run rings around me by countering any argument I made with "well...if you look at Engels theory of such and such, you'd realise that what you've just said is completely meaningless in that context!" WHAT?????
My friend said she watched them bat these references backwards and forwards til eventually she said, "I think you've both got equal points now!" She said she was groaning inwardly at their pompousness!
Apparently people in work are starting to notice his bad temper and she also said (which she's said before) that he looks really tragic hanging around with this bunch of friends who are so much younger than him.
He's only just turned 35 but is almost completely grey & apparently has grown a bushy beard that is almost all grey as well.
I kind of feel sorry for him...he cuts a tragic figure! When I dipped on facebook a few weeks ago, I saw a photo of him out with these young colleagues. Under one of the photos of him and a female colleague he'd commented "that guy looks hot!" and this colleague had put, "Hmm...XN...did you have your glasses on when you looked at that photo???" and he'd replied "yes I did, and I think he looks hot!"
He's so desperate for supply that he's having to compliment himself!
I know this is N dipping by proxy and I won't be speaking to this friend for ages again now but it does help to validate that he is rude & aggressive with other people. I spent 6 years being brainwashed into thinking that it was all my fault because he'd be awful to me and then I'd see him making an effort with other people.
My work has suffered massively over the last few months as well and it annoyed me to think that he was getting awards worth thousands and I'm not shining in my new job like I wanted to because I'd been so cut up over him.
XN had spent his £15k award for being brilliant in work that he'd won on a week long residential leadership course that he was on last week (he'd booked this before I went NC). My friend's husband has been on the same course and she said that they have psychologists there getting under their skin for the entire week and that he would probably have found that really uncomfortable. I'd love to know what they turned up with him!
It did help to learn that he's showing his true colours in work. I wondered who he'd take his temper out on now that I've vacated the position of chief verbal punchbag and rage buffer for him. I wrote a poem a while back in which I wondered who he would blame now for his anger and shame. Anyone who gets in his way now, it seems.
She said that she'd been in a meeting with him and a secretary had come in to arrange a meeting with him. He'd shouted at her something like "For God's sake woman, get out!" and got up and slammed the door in her face.
My friend said she was shocked and uncomfortable.
She said that he's been like this more and more in work lately and she also said that he's still coming into work every Sunday. He used to do that when he was with me because he'd get stressed about his job or he couldn't bear to be on his own. If I was busy, or after I'd moved away, he'd go into work every Sunday without fail. Which I think is a bit sad really. It's not like he's got tons and tons of work to do. He just had nothing else to do.
She also said that she was in a meeting with him & another guy and they were both trying to show off by slipping philosophical references into their sentences. XN did philosophy at university and used to try and run rings around me by countering any argument I made with "well...if you look at Engels theory of such and such, you'd realise that what you've just said is completely meaningless in that context!" WHAT?????
My friend said she watched them bat these references backwards and forwards til eventually she said, "I think you've both got equal points now!" She said she was groaning inwardly at their pompousness!
Apparently people in work are starting to notice his bad temper and she also said (which she's said before) that he looks really tragic hanging around with this bunch of friends who are so much younger than him.
He's only just turned 35 but is almost completely grey & apparently has grown a bushy beard that is almost all grey as well.
I kind of feel sorry for him...he cuts a tragic figure! When I dipped on facebook a few weeks ago, I saw a photo of him out with these young colleagues. Under one of the photos of him and a female colleague he'd commented "that guy looks hot!" and this colleague had put, "Hmm...XN...did you have your glasses on when you looked at that photo???" and he'd replied "yes I did, and I think he looks hot!"
He's so desperate for supply that he's having to compliment himself!
I know this is N dipping by proxy and I won't be speaking to this friend for ages again now but it does help to validate that he is rude & aggressive with other people. I spent 6 years being brainwashed into thinking that it was all my fault because he'd be awful to me and then I'd see him making an effort with other people.
My work has suffered massively over the last few months as well and it annoyed me to think that he was getting awards worth thousands and I'm not shining in my new job like I wanted to because I'd been so cut up over him.
XN had spent his £15k award for being brilliant in work that he'd won on a week long residential leadership course that he was on last week (he'd booked this before I went NC). My friend's husband has been on the same course and she said that they have psychologists there getting under their skin for the entire week and that he would probably have found that really uncomfortable. I'd love to know what they turned up with him!
It did help to learn that he's showing his true colours in work. I wondered who he'd take his temper out on now that I've vacated the position of chief verbal punchbag and rage buffer for him. I wrote a poem a while back in which I wondered who he would blame now for his anger and shame. Anyone who gets in his way now, it seems.
Friday, 25 September 2009
Facing up to the pain
I wanted things to work out with XN so much. When he was being nice to me, he was everything I'd ever wanted in a man and I found him so damn attractive too!
I had this gut instinct though that things would never be quite right. After 5 years of seeing him on & off, this is what made me hesitant to have him move in with me when he asked last year - interestingly when I'd been away for 6 weeks and he'd been living alone in my house without me (I eventually said no).
I think one reason why I stuck with him is because I didn't want to face up to the pain of having to walk away from him.
I knew it would hurt so very much.
And it does. It's horrible.
I know I've done the right thing. But to have someone in your life for 6 years that you've loved and found attractive and wanted and then to cut them off without so much as a goodbye is very, very hard.
To have to try and process words and situations that didn't make sense only adds to the pain. Knowing that mine most likely is relieved that I am out of his life adds to the hurt and the feeling that the whole thing was a waste of my life and energy.
I didn't want to be in this situation. I never wanted to have to face up to the painful truth that this man (I thought?) I loved was never going to be stable enough for us to have a normal relationship.
However, I'm here, and I have to get on with it.
I'm facing up to it now and it's as horrible as I thought it would be. I look forward to a time when I can firmly put him in my past and move on. That seems a long way off at the moment though but I know others have done it and so will I.
I had this gut instinct though that things would never be quite right. After 5 years of seeing him on & off, this is what made me hesitant to have him move in with me when he asked last year - interestingly when I'd been away for 6 weeks and he'd been living alone in my house without me (I eventually said no).
I think one reason why I stuck with him is because I didn't want to face up to the pain of having to walk away from him.
I knew it would hurt so very much.
And it does. It's horrible.
I know I've done the right thing. But to have someone in your life for 6 years that you've loved and found attractive and wanted and then to cut them off without so much as a goodbye is very, very hard.
To have to try and process words and situations that didn't make sense only adds to the pain. Knowing that mine most likely is relieved that I am out of his life adds to the hurt and the feeling that the whole thing was a waste of my life and energy.
I didn't want to be in this situation. I never wanted to have to face up to the painful truth that this man (I thought?) I loved was never going to be stable enough for us to have a normal relationship.
However, I'm here, and I have to get on with it.
I'm facing up to it now and it's as horrible as I thought it would be. I look forward to a time when I can firmly put him in my past and move on. That seems a long way off at the moment though but I know others have done it and so will I.
Thursday, 24 September 2009
The silent treatment
He'd make an effort with people he deemed worthy of his time and energy but that often didn't include me.
I remember my first D&D (oh happy days!). He came round after work on a Friday, tired. Sat there not talking. I was trying to start conversations and suddenly he exploded. Raged at me that I had the social skills of an 11 year old girl.
I said that it's because he wasn't talking and he said, "well, why can't you just tell a story or something like Jane [attractive colleague of his] would instead of constantly asking me questions!"
Way to go to belittle me, devalue me, verbally abuse me and triangulate me in two sentences!
He often did this when we were out for a meal. He just wouldn't have anything to say and it got very dull sitting opposite him.
It was made worse when I would go out and see him making an effort with a select few deemed worthy.
It reinforced the idea that it was me or that it was my fault somehow that he was like this.
I think it was partly that he just didn't have anything to say and partly that he genuinely wasn't interested in anyone else so any sort of two way conversation was very boring to him. Yet he was incapable of intimacy so couldn't open up himself in any way either.
It all made for some very boring evenings!
I remember my first D&D (oh happy days!). He came round after work on a Friday, tired. Sat there not talking. I was trying to start conversations and suddenly he exploded. Raged at me that I had the social skills of an 11 year old girl.
I said that it's because he wasn't talking and he said, "well, why can't you just tell a story or something like Jane [attractive colleague of his] would instead of constantly asking me questions!"
Way to go to belittle me, devalue me, verbally abuse me and triangulate me in two sentences!
He often did this when we were out for a meal. He just wouldn't have anything to say and it got very dull sitting opposite him.
It was made worse when I would go out and see him making an effort with a select few deemed worthy.
It reinforced the idea that it was me or that it was my fault somehow that he was like this.
I think it was partly that he just didn't have anything to say and partly that he genuinely wasn't interested in anyone else so any sort of two way conversation was very boring to him. Yet he was incapable of intimacy so couldn't open up himself in any way either.
It all made for some very boring evenings!
Saturday, 19 September 2009
The obsession with golf
Mine was obsessed with golf.
All his money went on golf and clothes.
He used to take time off work during the week to play golf but that meant he worked all weekend to get his work done so he could take the time off....which meant he wasn't around to spend time with me at the weekend. And he would lie about it. Once he came to stay at mine during the week and said he was on a course the following day. I asked who with and he said his team in work.
Then he stupidly left his mobile on my bed (seriously! He accused me of checking his phone but I never had at this point) with a text message on screen from a guy in IT he used to play golf with saying "see you at the club at ten, mate". I went downstairs and said "is D in your team at work?" and he bluffed. Then I asked if his course was at a golf course and he bluffed some more before getting angry because I'd found him out.
All this because he'd arranged to play golf that day which meant he'd had to work at the weekend. When I asked him why he lied he said "because I knew you would react like this!" I said, "yeah, I'm reacting like this because you lied!" but of course he maintained that I was mad because he'd was going off to play golf and that he was right to lie.....what a nutcase.
He once said to me that he couldn't buy me a birthday present until the following month because he didn't have any money. He was earning about £50k a year, and was living almost rent free at his parents (paying only about £200 a month to live there).
He kept a list of what he'd spent his money on so I asked him where his money had gone that month.
He threw the list at me and said "there - you look for yourself!" After he'd finished his tantrum he told me that in that month he'd spent £700 on golf clubs and another £700 on he didn't know what - coffees and take away food.
So he couldn't get me a birthday present!
My therapist asked what sports/activities with other guys. I said he played golf and she asked who with - she was trying to establish if he had any friends or if he mingled with guys of his own age. I said he played with his uncle or on his own. He joined a golf club costing £1500 and used to play on his own as he had no-one else to play with.
The golfing season will be over soon. Ha ha. Then he really won't know what to do with himself. He'll have to sit in his flat in the evenings looking at porn instead.
All his money went on golf and clothes.
He used to take time off work during the week to play golf but that meant he worked all weekend to get his work done so he could take the time off....which meant he wasn't around to spend time with me at the weekend. And he would lie about it. Once he came to stay at mine during the week and said he was on a course the following day. I asked who with and he said his team in work.
Then he stupidly left his mobile on my bed (seriously! He accused me of checking his phone but I never had at this point) with a text message on screen from a guy in IT he used to play golf with saying "see you at the club at ten, mate". I went downstairs and said "is D in your team at work?" and he bluffed. Then I asked if his course was at a golf course and he bluffed some more before getting angry because I'd found him out.
All this because he'd arranged to play golf that day which meant he'd had to work at the weekend. When I asked him why he lied he said "because I knew you would react like this!" I said, "yeah, I'm reacting like this because you lied!" but of course he maintained that I was mad because he'd was going off to play golf and that he was right to lie.....what a nutcase.
He once said to me that he couldn't buy me a birthday present until the following month because he didn't have any money. He was earning about £50k a year, and was living almost rent free at his parents (paying only about £200 a month to live there).
He kept a list of what he'd spent his money on so I asked him where his money had gone that month.
He threw the list at me and said "there - you look for yourself!" After he'd finished his tantrum he told me that in that month he'd spent £700 on golf clubs and another £700 on he didn't know what - coffees and take away food.
So he couldn't get me a birthday present!
My therapist asked what sports/activities with other guys. I said he played golf and she asked who with - she was trying to establish if he had any friends or if he mingled with guys of his own age. I said he played with his uncle or on his own. He joined a golf club costing £1500 and used to play on his own as he had no-one else to play with.
The golfing season will be over soon. Ha ha. Then he really won't know what to do with himself. He'll have to sit in his flat in the evenings looking at porn instead.
Feeling superior to my N
Two things made the scales fall from my eyes:
1. Politics
One thing that changed the way I felt about XN was after he'd joined the Labour party in the area where he moved to (after moving out of his parents' house at last). He went to meetings, agreed to help write a newsletter and took away a load of leaflets to deliver (he never did). He went along to a quiz night and a social night.
And a few months later he told me that he'd never voted.
Didn't see the point, he said.
I realised then that he's all 'mouth and no trousers', a pathetic creature.
2. His sudden purchase of a brand new wardrobe
After starting therapy (and then deciding he couldn't afford it after 3 sessions) he bought a load of new clothes and all from one shop.
He didn't even have an original look. He just bought about £1500 worth of clothes from this shop - probably their entire spring/summer collection (he's probably now onto their autumn/winter collection)!
I'd always thought he was well dressed and individual.
And then he started looking ridiculous. But someone in work told him he looked "dapper" and someone else said that they liked his stripey socks (which cost £15 a pair and he bought ten pairs of them in one go).
So it didn't matter what I (the old supply) thought! Someone in work said he looked dapper so he was happy.
-------------------------------------
I thought he had become unoriginal, all style and no substance and he couldn't even be bothered to get his a$$ down to the polling station despite pontificating about politics at any opportunity to anyone who would listen.
It was all rather pathetic and it makes me feel superior to him. I don't need to go and buy an entire clothing range from a store to know who I am.
And I don't know all that much about politics but at least I bother to get down to the polling station once every 4 years!
1. Politics
One thing that changed the way I felt about XN was after he'd joined the Labour party in the area where he moved to (after moving out of his parents' house at last). He went to meetings, agreed to help write a newsletter and took away a load of leaflets to deliver (he never did). He went along to a quiz night and a social night.
And a few months later he told me that he'd never voted.
Didn't see the point, he said.
I realised then that he's all 'mouth and no trousers', a pathetic creature.
2. His sudden purchase of a brand new wardrobe
After starting therapy (and then deciding he couldn't afford it after 3 sessions) he bought a load of new clothes and all from one shop.
He didn't even have an original look. He just bought about £1500 worth of clothes from this shop - probably their entire spring/summer collection (he's probably now onto their autumn/winter collection)!
I'd always thought he was well dressed and individual.
And then he started looking ridiculous. But someone in work told him he looked "dapper" and someone else said that they liked his stripey socks (which cost £15 a pair and he bought ten pairs of them in one go).
So it didn't matter what I (the old supply) thought! Someone in work said he looked dapper so he was happy.
-------------------------------------
I thought he had become unoriginal, all style and no substance and he couldn't even be bothered to get his a$$ down to the polling station despite pontificating about politics at any opportunity to anyone who would listen.
It was all rather pathetic and it makes me feel superior to him. I don't need to go and buy an entire clothing range from a store to know who I am.
And I don't know all that much about politics but at least I bother to get down to the polling station once every 4 years!
Friday, 18 September 2009
Ten weeks NC today
I'm ten weeks NC today and it's ten weeks since anyone:
- screamed at me.
- lied to me.
- told me it was my fault they lied to me.
- scared my dog by yelling at me.
- punched a wall in my house.
- called me a 'wilful little b*tch'.
- punched the dashboard of my car whilst I was driving.
- told me I'm talking sh*t.
- told me I'm controlling, stifling, nagging, demanding, needy and that my opinions are all "black and white".
- told me I'm wrong to feel the way I do about something.
- told me that I didn't actually feel what I was feeling.
- told me I was lying.
Ten weeks ago today I got away from an abuser and took my power back.
- screamed at me.
- lied to me.
- told me it was my fault they lied to me.
- scared my dog by yelling at me.
- punched a wall in my house.
- called me a 'wilful little b*tch'.
- punched the dashboard of my car whilst I was driving.
- told me I'm talking sh*t.
- told me I'm controlling, stifling, nagging, demanding, needy and that my opinions are all "black and white".
- told me I'm wrong to feel the way I do about something.
- told me that I didn't actually feel what I was feeling.
- told me I was lying.
Ten weeks ago today I got away from an abuser and took my power back.
Thursday, 17 September 2009
How to spot a liar (thanks to Serenity Magnet)
Body Language of Lies
• Physical expression will be limited and stiff, with few arm and hand movements. Hand, arm and leg movement are toward their own body the liar takes up less space.
• A person who is lying to you will avoid making eye contact.
• Hands touching their face, throat & mouth. Touching or scratching the nose or behind their ear. Not likely to touch his chest/heart with an open hand.
Emotional Gestures & Contradiction
• Timing and duration of emotional gestures and emotions are off a normal pace. The display of emotion is delayed, stays longer it would naturally, then stops suddenly.
• Timing is off between emotions gestures/expressions and words. Example: Someone says "I love it!" when receiving a gift, and then smile after making that statement, rather then at the same time the statement is made.
• Gestures/expressions don’t match the verbal statement, such as frowning when saying “I love you.”
• Expressions are limited to mouth movements when someone is faking emotions (like happy, surprised, sad, awe, )instead of the whole face. For example; when someone smiles naturally their whole face is involved: jaw/cheek movement, eyes and forehead push down, etc.
Interactions and Reactions
• A guilty person gets defensive. An innocent person will often go on the offensive.
• A liar is uncomfortable facing his questioner/accuser and may turn his head or body away.
• A liar might unconsciously place objects (book, coffee cup, etc.) between themselves and you.
Verbal Context and Content
• A liar will use your words to make answer a question. When asked, “Did you eat the last cookie?” The liar answers, “No, I did not eat the last cookie.”
•A statement with a contraction is more likely to be truthful: “ I didn't do it” instead of “I did not do it”
• Liars sometimes avoid "lying" by not making direct statements. They imply answers instead of denying something directly.
• The guilty person may speak more than natural, adding unnecessary details to convince you... they are not comfortable with silence or pauses in the conversation.
• A liar may leave out pronouns and speak in a monotonous tone. When a truthful statement is made the pronoun is emphasized as much or more than the rest of the words in a statement.
• Words may be garbled and spoken softly, and syntax and grammar may be off. In other
words, his sentences will likely be muddled rather than emphasized.
Other signs of a lie
• If you believe someone is lying, then change subject of a conversation quickly, a liar follows along willingly and becomes more relaxed. The guilty wants the subject changed; an innocent person may be confused by the sudden change in topics and will want to back to the previous subject.
• Using humor or sarcasm to avoid a subject.
• A true smile uses the muscles around the eyes as well and the mouth, it will cause the eyes to squit, a fake smile only uses the muscles of the mouth
Stress and anxiety
A liar is stressed during and shortly after a lie so watch for body language changes. Sudden changes in body language indicates stress. Often the stressful body language is self-comforting gestures with the hands, such as rubbing the nose or scratching the face and body. Also frequently the palms of the hands are suddenly hidden from view.
What to watch for when a person is lying to you when face-to-face
-Voice is higher pitched.
-Untrue answers to questions are slightly delayed.
-Body and face become stiffer.
-Hand-to-face touching increased, especially nose rubbing and mouth covering.
-Face and hands becomes a bit paler as blood is withheld from extremities. (A sign of high stress.)
-Nostrils may open wider ('flare').
-Breathing deeper and maybe audible.
-Lips become thinner and tighter.
-Shoulders pulled up and elbows pulled in to sides more. Body takes up less space.
-Forehead tightens up a little in area between eye brows.
-Eye contact breaks away from you and eyes may squint or close.
-Heart rate increases.
-Hand palms turned down or closed, and not revealed to you.
The best overall liar detection clue
A sudden change in posture and movements from the normal patterns for a short time until you have accepted what is said. If you believe someone is lying, change the subject quickly and watch their reactions. A liar will follow along willingly and become more relaxed. The guilty wants the subject changed but an innocent person may be confused by the sudden change and will want to go back to the previous subject.
Language of deception
A deceptive body is concerned about being found out and this concern may show in the following ways...
Anxiety
A deceptive person is typically anxious that they might be found out (unless they are psychopathic or good at acting), so they may send signals of tension. This may include sweating, sudden movements, minor twitches of muscles (especially around the mouth and eyes), changes in voice tone and speed.
These signals are almost impossible to stop as we start them very young.
Control
In order to avoid being caught, there may be various signs of over-control. For example, there may be signs of attempted friendly body language, such as forced smiles (mouth smiles but eyes do not), jerky movements and clumsiness or oscillation between open body language and defensive body language.
The person may also try to hold their body still, to avoid tell-tale signals. For example they may hold their arms in or put their hands in their pockets.
Distracted
A person who is trying to deceive needs to think more about what they are doing, so they may drift off or pause as they think about what to say or hesitate during speech.
They may also be distracted by the need to cover up. Thus their natural timing may go astray and they may over- or under-react to events.
6 key traits of lying
1. Anxiety may be displaced into actions such as fidgeting, moving around the place or paying attention to unusual places.
2. Face touching
3. Suddenly changes the position of his or her arms or legs like crossing arms over chest or crossing legs
4. Shifts eyes away or do the opposite and stare excessively
5. Pitch or speed of the voice changes and/ or uses "mmmm" or "ahh"
6. Responds with hostility, indignation or turns it around by asking questions
• Physical expression will be limited and stiff, with few arm and hand movements. Hand, arm and leg movement are toward their own body the liar takes up less space.
• A person who is lying to you will avoid making eye contact.
• Hands touching their face, throat & mouth. Touching or scratching the nose or behind their ear. Not likely to touch his chest/heart with an open hand.
Emotional Gestures & Contradiction
• Timing and duration of emotional gestures and emotions are off a normal pace. The display of emotion is delayed, stays longer it would naturally, then stops suddenly.
• Timing is off between emotions gestures/expressions and words. Example: Someone says "I love it!" when receiving a gift, and then smile after making that statement, rather then at the same time the statement is made.
• Gestures/expressions don’t match the verbal statement, such as frowning when saying “I love you.”
• Expressions are limited to mouth movements when someone is faking emotions (like happy, surprised, sad, awe, )instead of the whole face. For example; when someone smiles naturally their whole face is involved: jaw/cheek movement, eyes and forehead push down, etc.
Interactions and Reactions
• A guilty person gets defensive. An innocent person will often go on the offensive.
• A liar is uncomfortable facing his questioner/accuser and may turn his head or body away.
• A liar might unconsciously place objects (book, coffee cup, etc.) between themselves and you.
Verbal Context and Content
• A liar will use your words to make answer a question. When asked, “Did you eat the last cookie?” The liar answers, “No, I did not eat the last cookie.”
•A statement with a contraction is more likely to be truthful: “ I didn't do it” instead of “I did not do it”
• Liars sometimes avoid "lying" by not making direct statements. They imply answers instead of denying something directly.
• The guilty person may speak more than natural, adding unnecessary details to convince you... they are not comfortable with silence or pauses in the conversation.
• A liar may leave out pronouns and speak in a monotonous tone. When a truthful statement is made the pronoun is emphasized as much or more than the rest of the words in a statement.
• Words may be garbled and spoken softly, and syntax and grammar may be off. In other
words, his sentences will likely be muddled rather than emphasized.
Other signs of a lie
• If you believe someone is lying, then change subject of a conversation quickly, a liar follows along willingly and becomes more relaxed. The guilty wants the subject changed; an innocent person may be confused by the sudden change in topics and will want to back to the previous subject.
• Using humor or sarcasm to avoid a subject.
• A true smile uses the muscles around the eyes as well and the mouth, it will cause the eyes to squit, a fake smile only uses the muscles of the mouth
Stress and anxiety
A liar is stressed during and shortly after a lie so watch for body language changes. Sudden changes in body language indicates stress. Often the stressful body language is self-comforting gestures with the hands, such as rubbing the nose or scratching the face and body. Also frequently the palms of the hands are suddenly hidden from view.
What to watch for when a person is lying to you when face-to-face
-Voice is higher pitched.
-Untrue answers to questions are slightly delayed.
-Body and face become stiffer.
-Hand-to-face touching increased, especially nose rubbing and mouth covering.
-Face and hands becomes a bit paler as blood is withheld from extremities. (A sign of high stress.)
-Nostrils may open wider ('flare').
-Breathing deeper and maybe audible.
-Lips become thinner and tighter.
-Shoulders pulled up and elbows pulled in to sides more. Body takes up less space.
-Forehead tightens up a little in area between eye brows.
-Eye contact breaks away from you and eyes may squint or close.
-Heart rate increases.
-Hand palms turned down or closed, and not revealed to you.
The best overall liar detection clue
A sudden change in posture and movements from the normal patterns for a short time until you have accepted what is said. If you believe someone is lying, change the subject quickly and watch their reactions. A liar will follow along willingly and become more relaxed. The guilty wants the subject changed but an innocent person may be confused by the sudden change and will want to go back to the previous subject.
Language of deception
A deceptive body is concerned about being found out and this concern may show in the following ways...
Anxiety
A deceptive person is typically anxious that they might be found out (unless they are psychopathic or good at acting), so they may send signals of tension. This may include sweating, sudden movements, minor twitches of muscles (especially around the mouth and eyes), changes in voice tone and speed.
These signals are almost impossible to stop as we start them very young.
Control
In order to avoid being caught, there may be various signs of over-control. For example, there may be signs of attempted friendly body language, such as forced smiles (mouth smiles but eyes do not), jerky movements and clumsiness or oscillation between open body language and defensive body language.
The person may also try to hold their body still, to avoid tell-tale signals. For example they may hold their arms in or put their hands in their pockets.
Distracted
A person who is trying to deceive needs to think more about what they are doing, so they may drift off or pause as they think about what to say or hesitate during speech.
They may also be distracted by the need to cover up. Thus their natural timing may go astray and they may over- or under-react to events.
6 key traits of lying
1. Anxiety may be displaced into actions such as fidgeting, moving around the place or paying attention to unusual places.
2. Face touching
3. Suddenly changes the position of his or her arms or legs like crossing arms over chest or crossing legs
4. Shifts eyes away or do the opposite and stare excessively
5. Pitch or speed of the voice changes and/ or uses "mmmm" or "ahh"
6. Responds with hostility, indignation or turns it around by asking questions
A time I interrupted XN
I remember a time I interrupted him:
- I was driving along a motorway at 70 mph, taking him to a place he'd said he wanted to go to for the day (his car needed some work doing apparently).
- We were coming up to a split in the motorway. I had to interrupt him to ask him which motorway to take because he was supposed to be navigating.
- He screamed at me that I shouldn't have asked for directions in such an AGGRESSIVE manner! How DARE I!
- At this point, I had to make a decision about which road to take because he was still screaming and refusing to look at the map.
- I ended up driving along, balancing the map on my lap, at 70mph on a busy motorway whilst he screamed in my ear. I thought my ear drum was going to burst so I had to hold my hand over my ear, plus balance the map and drive. Why I didn't pull over straight away and chuck him out into the traffic, I'll never know.
- I got so stressed that I got caught on a speeding camera and got 3 points on my licence from that trip.
- Oh, happy days.
I'm sure mine did interrupt me but he was usually too busy sulking or not bothering to make conversation anyway to make the effort to make conversation with me back.
If we were rowing, then he wouldn't let me get a word in edgeways. Twice in the last year, I thought "I'm not having this!" He was screaming down the phone at me. I gathered my breath and screamed back at him at the top of my voice to "LET ME SPEAK!". I'm not proud of having to do that (not a sign of a healthy r/ship) but it shut him up.
- I was driving along a motorway at 70 mph, taking him to a place he'd said he wanted to go to for the day (his car needed some work doing apparently).
- We were coming up to a split in the motorway. I had to interrupt him to ask him which motorway to take because he was supposed to be navigating.
- He screamed at me that I shouldn't have asked for directions in such an AGGRESSIVE manner! How DARE I!
- At this point, I had to make a decision about which road to take because he was still screaming and refusing to look at the map.
- I ended up driving along, balancing the map on my lap, at 70mph on a busy motorway whilst he screamed in my ear. I thought my ear drum was going to burst so I had to hold my hand over my ear, plus balance the map and drive. Why I didn't pull over straight away and chuck him out into the traffic, I'll never know.
- I got so stressed that I got caught on a speeding camera and got 3 points on my licence from that trip.
- Oh, happy days.
I'm sure mine did interrupt me but he was usually too busy sulking or not bothering to make conversation anyway to make the effort to make conversation with me back.
If we were rowing, then he wouldn't let me get a word in edgeways. Twice in the last year, I thought "I'm not having this!" He was screaming down the phone at me. I gathered my breath and screamed back at him at the top of my voice to "LET ME SPEAK!". I'm not proud of having to do that (not a sign of a healthy r/ship) but it shut him up.
Tuesday, 15 September 2009
A big red flag
I've just remembered something else that should have been a huge red flag for me.
About 3 years ago, on my birthday, we went out for a meal. XN was telling me about this girl in work who'd had a crush on him (I'd known about it already but things had come to a head with this girl). He'd not told her he was seeing someone and accepted lifts off her every day to get to work.
One day she drove off somewhere with him and demanded an explanation from him because she felt he was leading her on.
He was incredibly p*ssed off that he'd been put in that position by her. Yet he'd done things like gone around to her house (pretending to be single) and helped her cook when she had a party for some people from work.
He made me sympathise with him because he said she was a trouble maker and had caused problems with male colleagues before.
He told me that his mum got really excited that he was hanging around with this girl thinking he had a g/friend at last (she didn't know about us at the time-my choice as I worked with her) and she invited this girl for dinner.
XN was livid, spitting with rage that his mum thought he would interested in this girl...he said things like, "I mean....look at me!! Does she think that someone who looks like ME would go for HER??!"
....this from someone who apparently suffered from very low self-esteem! I remember thinking that something didn't quite square there!
Anyway, back to my birthday meal. I was asking him about this girl and he said he didn't care at all if she liked him. He admitted that he'd liked the attention and that if she did like him, it was her problem. I said, "but you don't want her to get hurt, do you?" and he said he didn't care.
I was upset with his attitude at the time and we fell out (on my birthday). However, I had a nutcase stalking me at the time and I didn't care about HIM so I tried not to be too harsh with XN.
However...that should have been a huge red flag.
XN took advantage of someone who liked him, used her for lifts, devalued her and eventually stopped speaking to her altogether. I wasn't threatened by her so let him do what he felt he needed to do. However, this is exactly what he did this year in work, pretending to be single, acting flirtatiously, but this time with a more attractive girl, who was "kind, and sweet and nice". A younger version of me looks wise and her character was like mine before I was devalued.
So....an indication of things to come that I ignored. More fool me.
About 3 years ago, on my birthday, we went out for a meal. XN was telling me about this girl in work who'd had a crush on him (I'd known about it already but things had come to a head with this girl). He'd not told her he was seeing someone and accepted lifts off her every day to get to work.
One day she drove off somewhere with him and demanded an explanation from him because she felt he was leading her on.
He was incredibly p*ssed off that he'd been put in that position by her. Yet he'd done things like gone around to her house (pretending to be single) and helped her cook when she had a party for some people from work.
He made me sympathise with him because he said she was a trouble maker and had caused problems with male colleagues before.
He told me that his mum got really excited that he was hanging around with this girl thinking he had a g/friend at last (she didn't know about us at the time-my choice as I worked with her) and she invited this girl for dinner.
XN was livid, spitting with rage that his mum thought he would interested in this girl...he said things like, "I mean....look at me!! Does she think that someone who looks like ME would go for HER??!"
....this from someone who apparently suffered from very low self-esteem! I remember thinking that something didn't quite square there!
Anyway, back to my birthday meal. I was asking him about this girl and he said he didn't care at all if she liked him. He admitted that he'd liked the attention and that if she did like him, it was her problem. I said, "but you don't want her to get hurt, do you?" and he said he didn't care.
I was upset with his attitude at the time and we fell out (on my birthday). However, I had a nutcase stalking me at the time and I didn't care about HIM so I tried not to be too harsh with XN.
However...that should have been a huge red flag.
XN took advantage of someone who liked him, used her for lifts, devalued her and eventually stopped speaking to her altogether. I wasn't threatened by her so let him do what he felt he needed to do. However, this is exactly what he did this year in work, pretending to be single, acting flirtatiously, but this time with a more attractive girl, who was "kind, and sweet and nice". A younger version of me looks wise and her character was like mine before I was devalued.
So....an indication of things to come that I ignored. More fool me.
Bursting the N bubble
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I thought he was so wonderful, so clever, so interesting, etc etc...she's got me questioning all these things now.
For example, I liked the fact that he was well read. She asked me what he read in the time that I knew him. I paused, and stuttered out an answer, then realised that he rarely read anything other than golfing magazines and the occasional crime novel that he borrowed from his mum.
I liked the fact that I could talk to him. Again, not sure where that came from. All people ever got from him was a monologue on a subject of his choosing, or he'd sulk or fake "matey-ness" if around people he could be bothered with.
I liked the fact that he wasn't materialistic and had similar values to me....this is the guy who spent £1500 on a watch when he was unemployed and who spent £1500 on clothes in the last few months, then told me he couldn't afford his CBT sessions. This is the guy who constantly went on about how much money he SHOULD be earning.
I thought doing a job was more important to him than the money. Yet this is the guy who wants to be an NHS director, doesn't care in what field, and funnily enough his mum is an NHS director. He despises what he calls "grabbers". Yet I found out a few months ago that he's managed to wangle himself a higher grade at work than his job entitles him to and he's managed to wangle himself half a personal assistant when others at his level haven't. That's p*ssed a few people off.
I liked the fact that he was a good cook (I am terrible)....but when I look back on it, he only ever cooked about 3 or 4 different dishes in the time that I knew him. And woe betide my kitchen utensils if it went wrong! They'd end up flying around the room!
I liked the fact that we liked doing the same things on holiday...this is the guy who spent the last day of one holiday we were on with friends in Spain shut in the villa on his own watching The Simpsons all day and not talking.
I liked the fact that he was independent. He'd been travelling for 2 years just before I met him.....this is the guy who couldn't move out of his parents' house for 5.5 years when I knew him! When he finally got his own place, after 6 months, he moved back in with them again! He wouldn't live with them now. He has a bunch of friends in work to impress. Telling them that he lives with his mum at age 35 wouldn't get NS for him.
I liked the fact that he had opinions on bigger subjects than what was on the tv that night.....this was the guy who joined the Labour party a few months ago but told me just before I went NC that he had NEVER voted. He "didn't see the point." I lost a lot of respect for him when he told me that.
Just thinking about that last one makes me think he's rather pathetic. And thinking of him in that way, rather than as this wonderful guy that I didn't deserve, helps me a lot.
Monday, 14 September 2009
The last six months
Part of me and XN's problems in 2008 came from him visiting a strip club on my brother's stag do. He was so cruel afterwards when he could see I was upset. It took months for him to even listen to me talk about the subject. We never really recovered from that incident and from his treatment of me after.
- My 'informal' leaving do from work
I invited him along to meet my colleagues for the first time because things had been good between us. His mum was a director there and the whole situation had been a bit difficult. I was so happy that things seemed to be finally stable between us.
- The following week, on the way to him driving me to my Christmas party/official leaving do from work:
He made an insensitive comment about a girl, realised he'd screwed up, started punching the steering wheel, and screamed at me that I was a "f**king knob". I jumped out of the car at the next set of traffic lights and went into my own Xmas party crying.
- The following weekend, I was cleaning my house getting ready to hand the keys back. I had a a 3 hour drive ahead of me and was starting a new job the next day. He turned up to get some things of his. He started screaming at me again that the weekend before had been my fault. I threw him out. He came back when he had calmed down and helped me.
- The following weekend, (just before Xmas) I came back up north to go to a concert with him. He lied to me that he was ill, stood me up, and dumped me by text message the next day.
He sent me a happy new year message. I was speechless.
I sent him some diary extracts from over the last couple of years so that he could see his cycle of anger, withdrawal, finishing with me etc.
I spoke to him and persuaded him to get professional help which he did.
During the next 3 months, I was on hand to talk to over the phone and be supportive with his therapy. He seemed to still want me around to talk to and was sweet to me during that time apart from the occasional moody phone call during which he'd be implying that I was stupid to phone him. Once I called to see how he was and we had the most boring conversation and he texted after to say that he found the kind of "intimate conversation that we'd just had difficult, given where we are".
He moved into his own place and phoned me first to give me his new phone number. When I said, "do you want me to phone you then?" he laughed and said "don't be such a bloody martyr!"
On Valentine's Day I was feeling miserable. He texted saying that we should have talked about our 'personality types' (he'd found an old Myers Briggs test that he'd done) and that it could have helped us.
We arranged to meet up 3 months after my Xmas D& D but he said it would only be for one thing and that I had to understand that. He said I shouldn't expect to "have my cake and eat it". [irony #1]
He came to visit me, we had a lovely weekend and arranged to meet up again. He wanted to come down more often but I said that no, we both needed some space to get to know ourselves again [irony #2: I get accused of being controlling and stifling a few months down the line].
He told me during this time that we'd been "almost perfect" but that something always seemed to get in the way. He said our weekend together had been "almost perfect".
During this time, he'd complained of being lonely. I persuaded him to join Facebook so he reconnect with people.
He came down to visit me for a long weekend but had to leave early because he had invited a few people from work round to his new flat for dinner.
A day or two later these trendy young things appeared as friends on his facebook page.
He told them that he'd been visiting his sister the weekend he saw me (his sister lives near me). He told me that he didn't want them to cheapen our r/ship by teasing him that he was only seeing me for one thing.
I was a bit put out but didn't say anything.
I joked that I was going to put a slushy message on his facebook page from "his sister". Immediately he deactivated his facebook a/c and claimed that he'd done that because he wasn't really using it.
I went to visit him on the way back from a course I was on. I found that he'd been looking at porn (a lot) on his new lap top. He'd never done that before. I was gutted. After his insensitivity about the strip club the previous year, my self-confidence in my body and my attractiveness was at an all time low (even now I can't have a bath and I can't stand to catch sight of my naked body in the mirror).
I asked him not to look at porn until we could talk about it again as I had to rush off the next day.
I went up again the following weekend. He was really sweet when I arrived. But then I found his "anxiety book" in which he'd written a lot about a girl from work he'd never even mentioned to me including that he'd "quite like to sh*g her. She looks like she needs a good seeing to."
I was gutted and, after demanding an explanation (pointless), I jumped in the car and drove 3 hours back home at half past midnight.
He phoned and phoned over the next few days to try and sort things out with me. I exploded when I next spoke to him. I'd supported him so much and I felt he was just playing me.
This seemed to be the real reason that he wasn't on facebook. He finally admitted it.
I asked him to put himself back on and to make it known in work that he was seeing me. It took him ten days to do so.
He promised that he wouldn't look at porn or text this girl again.
The following weekend I found more porn on his pc. He told me it was perfectly normal.
The week after that he sent me a text meant for this girl in work. Nothing really bad but he clearly was hoping she would get in touch.
He came down to see me again and I asked him to make a choice. I said that if he wanted this girl in work (she was in a long term r/ship), then I'd wish him luck, and would walk away. If he didn't, then I asked him to stop messing me about. He promised that he wanted to see how things worked out with me.
We went on to have a lovely weekend together - idyllic, picnic in a park, feeding each other strawberries, we went rowing on a river and then had lunch in the sunshine by the river - and then we booked a holiday to Spain together.
The morning of the holiday a few weeks later, I found texts on his phone that showed that he lied to me the previous weekend about what he'd been doing. He'd made me feel sorry for him because he'd been bored, so bored on the Sunday that he'd gone into work. I'd spent time trying to cheer him up and persuaded him to leave work and go out and play golf. The whole time, he'd had plans to go out for the afternoon with these girls from work. It turns out later on that their b/friends were there as well but he didn't tell me that at the time.
He didn't need to lie in the first place if it was all so harmless.
He raged at me, so I threw him out. End of holiday. End of relationship.
He tried to get in touch for 3 days, phoning, texting, e-mailing.
I didn't respond. Then nothing. I must have had 'MUG' tattooed on my forehead.
- My 'informal' leaving do from work
I invited him along to meet my colleagues for the first time because things had been good between us. His mum was a director there and the whole situation had been a bit difficult. I was so happy that things seemed to be finally stable between us.
- The following week, on the way to him driving me to my Christmas party/official leaving do from work:
He made an insensitive comment about a girl, realised he'd screwed up, started punching the steering wheel, and screamed at me that I was a "f**king knob". I jumped out of the car at the next set of traffic lights and went into my own Xmas party crying.
- The following weekend, I was cleaning my house getting ready to hand the keys back. I had a a 3 hour drive ahead of me and was starting a new job the next day. He turned up to get some things of his. He started screaming at me again that the weekend before had been my fault. I threw him out. He came back when he had calmed down and helped me.
- The following weekend, (just before Xmas) I came back up north to go to a concert with him. He lied to me that he was ill, stood me up, and dumped me by text message the next day.
He sent me a happy new year message. I was speechless.
I sent him some diary extracts from over the last couple of years so that he could see his cycle of anger, withdrawal, finishing with me etc.
I spoke to him and persuaded him to get professional help which he did.
During the next 3 months, I was on hand to talk to over the phone and be supportive with his therapy. He seemed to still want me around to talk to and was sweet to me during that time apart from the occasional moody phone call during which he'd be implying that I was stupid to phone him. Once I called to see how he was and we had the most boring conversation and he texted after to say that he found the kind of "intimate conversation that we'd just had difficult, given where we are".
He moved into his own place and phoned me first to give me his new phone number. When I said, "do you want me to phone you then?" he laughed and said "don't be such a bloody martyr!"
On Valentine's Day I was feeling miserable. He texted saying that we should have talked about our 'personality types' (he'd found an old Myers Briggs test that he'd done) and that it could have helped us.
We arranged to meet up 3 months after my Xmas D& D but he said it would only be for one thing and that I had to understand that. He said I shouldn't expect to "have my cake and eat it". [irony #1]
He came to visit me, we had a lovely weekend and arranged to meet up again. He wanted to come down more often but I said that no, we both needed some space to get to know ourselves again [irony #2: I get accused of being controlling and stifling a few months down the line].
He told me during this time that we'd been "almost perfect" but that something always seemed to get in the way. He said our weekend together had been "almost perfect".
During this time, he'd complained of being lonely. I persuaded him to join Facebook so he reconnect with people.
He came down to visit me for a long weekend but had to leave early because he had invited a few people from work round to his new flat for dinner.
A day or two later these trendy young things appeared as friends on his facebook page.
He told them that he'd been visiting his sister the weekend he saw me (his sister lives near me). He told me that he didn't want them to cheapen our r/ship by teasing him that he was only seeing me for one thing.
I was a bit put out but didn't say anything.
I joked that I was going to put a slushy message on his facebook page from "his sister". Immediately he deactivated his facebook a/c and claimed that he'd done that because he wasn't really using it.
I went to visit him on the way back from a course I was on. I found that he'd been looking at porn (a lot) on his new lap top. He'd never done that before. I was gutted. After his insensitivity about the strip club the previous year, my self-confidence in my body and my attractiveness was at an all time low (even now I can't have a bath and I can't stand to catch sight of my naked body in the mirror).
I asked him not to look at porn until we could talk about it again as I had to rush off the next day.
I went up again the following weekend. He was really sweet when I arrived. But then I found his "anxiety book" in which he'd written a lot about a girl from work he'd never even mentioned to me including that he'd "quite like to sh*g her. She looks like she needs a good seeing to."
I was gutted and, after demanding an explanation (pointless), I jumped in the car and drove 3 hours back home at half past midnight.
He phoned and phoned over the next few days to try and sort things out with me. I exploded when I next spoke to him. I'd supported him so much and I felt he was just playing me.
This seemed to be the real reason that he wasn't on facebook. He finally admitted it.
I asked him to put himself back on and to make it known in work that he was seeing me. It took him ten days to do so.
He promised that he wouldn't look at porn or text this girl again.
The following weekend I found more porn on his pc. He told me it was perfectly normal.
The week after that he sent me a text meant for this girl in work. Nothing really bad but he clearly was hoping she would get in touch.
He came down to see me again and I asked him to make a choice. I said that if he wanted this girl in work (she was in a long term r/ship), then I'd wish him luck, and would walk away. If he didn't, then I asked him to stop messing me about. He promised that he wanted to see how things worked out with me.
We went on to have a lovely weekend together - idyllic, picnic in a park, feeding each other strawberries, we went rowing on a river and then had lunch in the sunshine by the river - and then we booked a holiday to Spain together.
The morning of the holiday a few weeks later, I found texts on his phone that showed that he lied to me the previous weekend about what he'd been doing. He'd made me feel sorry for him because he'd been bored, so bored on the Sunday that he'd gone into work. I'd spent time trying to cheer him up and persuaded him to leave work and go out and play golf. The whole time, he'd had plans to go out for the afternoon with these girls from work. It turns out later on that their b/friends were there as well but he didn't tell me that at the time.
He didn't need to lie in the first place if it was all so harmless.
He raged at me, so I threw him out. End of holiday. End of relationship.
He tried to get in touch for 3 days, phoning, texting, e-mailing.
I didn't respond. Then nothing. I must have had 'MUG' tattooed on my forehead.
XN and drugs
Mine took drugs from time to time and also drank, but he didn't drink any more than I would consider a normal amount for a guy of his age.
However, after both, he was horrible. A D&D would always follow and I hated him going out because I knew I would get the blame for him feeling terrible after.
He didn't seem to be addicted but used it as a way of forgetting how awful he felt in day to day life. Cocaine made him able to talk to people.
He did it regularly when he was in his early 20's and I'm sure it didn't help him in the long run.
The trouble is in a situation like this, if you try to help you get called a nag, and if you don't try to help you get accused of not caring. And you get abused if they do it anyway.
I used to beg mine not to take drugs because I knew it was never worth it plus I used to get it in the neck afterwards. He used to say, very condescendingly, that he wouldn't be lectured by someone who knew nothing about drug taking and I'd always get chucked. He felt awful...wondered why....would look around...oh there's Sanegirl...must be her fault...right I'd better get rid of her and everything will be fine.
It's difficult to know if the drugs have made him bitter or if he is like that anyway, but, from my own experience, drugs just exacerbated the abuse that I got. I remember once suggesting to XN that he tried to go without for a month just to see if he felt better as he was always complaining that he felt unhappy. He screamed at me down the phone. Later he called and apologised and said that he was sorry, and that I say things to him that are right but that he doesn't want to hear.
Did he stick to it? Not really. He stopped taking pills but still took the cocaine from time to time but only when this friend was around.
However, after both, he was horrible. A D&D would always follow and I hated him going out because I knew I would get the blame for him feeling terrible after.
He didn't seem to be addicted but used it as a way of forgetting how awful he felt in day to day life. Cocaine made him able to talk to people.
He did it regularly when he was in his early 20's and I'm sure it didn't help him in the long run.
The trouble is in a situation like this, if you try to help you get called a nag, and if you don't try to help you get accused of not caring. And you get abused if they do it anyway.
I used to beg mine not to take drugs because I knew it was never worth it plus I used to get it in the neck afterwards. He used to say, very condescendingly, that he wouldn't be lectured by someone who knew nothing about drug taking and I'd always get chucked. He felt awful...wondered why....would look around...oh there's Sanegirl...must be her fault...right I'd better get rid of her and everything will be fine.
It's difficult to know if the drugs have made him bitter or if he is like that anyway, but, from my own experience, drugs just exacerbated the abuse that I got. I remember once suggesting to XN that he tried to go without for a month just to see if he felt better as he was always complaining that he felt unhappy. He screamed at me down the phone. Later he called and apologised and said that he was sorry, and that I say things to him that are right but that he doesn't want to hear.
Did he stick to it? Not really. He stopped taking pills but still took the cocaine from time to time but only when this friend was around.
I wasted my time!
I read somewhere recently - I can't remember where now - that you can only really love someone if you know them and accept them for exactly what they are. Therefore, we can't say that we really loved an N because we didn't really know the whole person. They hardly had a 'self' to love and what self they did have was constantly changing and shifting.
I didn't ever say to XN that I loved him to his face in 6 years. I felt huge, overwhelming feelings of love at times. However, I couldn't bring myself to say it to him in person because I felt so vulnerable saying it. I also had this feeling of not really knowing him. I knew who he was when he was with me but we didn't live together and I never really had a sense of who he was when he wasn't with me. It was a very strange feeling, wanting to let go but never quite being able to.
I adored my first boyfriend. I tried to hold back with him but I loved him and the words 'I love you' just popped out of my mouth one day after a few months. I tell my dog all the time - I can't help it!! With XN, it never popped out.
I also remember reading that people in r/ships with Ns report a feeling of the r/ship never having really 'taken off'. That makes sense to me. And it would explain why XN didn't describe his 2 previous g/friends as 'proper relationships' and will probably say the same about his 6 year r/ship with me.
I know I felt love for them but how can I have loved someone who wasn't really there?
Thinking like this makes me feel like I wasted that love on someone who wasn't real. I read in his 'anxiety book' before I went NC that he'd never really loved anyone. That didn't bother me at the time. His actions had already proved that he didn't really care for me. But now I reflect on that, I feel really hurt. Why did he have to waste my time? Sometimes he talked about proposing to me, and having kids, and he wanted to move in with me (I said no). Then I read that he'd never felt love for anyone in his life.
Did he not know what he wanted?
And how could I really have loved someone who didn't even exist?
I didn't ever say to XN that I loved him to his face in 6 years. I felt huge, overwhelming feelings of love at times. However, I couldn't bring myself to say it to him in person because I felt so vulnerable saying it. I also had this feeling of not really knowing him. I knew who he was when he was with me but we didn't live together and I never really had a sense of who he was when he wasn't with me. It was a very strange feeling, wanting to let go but never quite being able to.
I adored my first boyfriend. I tried to hold back with him but I loved him and the words 'I love you' just popped out of my mouth one day after a few months. I tell my dog all the time - I can't help it!! With XN, it never popped out.
I also remember reading that people in r/ships with Ns report a feeling of the r/ship never having really 'taken off'. That makes sense to me. And it would explain why XN didn't describe his 2 previous g/friends as 'proper relationships' and will probably say the same about his 6 year r/ship with me.
I know I felt love for them but how can I have loved someone who wasn't really there?
Thinking like this makes me feel like I wasted that love on someone who wasn't real. I read in his 'anxiety book' before I went NC that he'd never really loved anyone. That didn't bother me at the time. His actions had already proved that he didn't really care for me. But now I reflect on that, I feel really hurt. Why did he have to waste my time? Sometimes he talked about proposing to me, and having kids, and he wanted to move in with me (I said no). Then I read that he'd never felt love for anyone in his life.
Did he not know what he wanted?
And how could I really have loved someone who didn't even exist?
The confusion of having a high functioning N
This week, mine is on a leadership course paid for a huge grant he won. His organisation nominated him out of ~1000 people for the £15k award and he was one of 10 people in his region who won.
He's been offered jobs in the last few years by people who have worked with him and think he's really good.
He can attract friends.
He dresses well.
He has attracted many women, and up to when he was seeing me, broke up with the 2 significant previous gfriends that he had (so his choice, not their's).
I still can't get my head around quite what's happened with him.
I thought mine was the whole package. I'm now 33 and am worrying that any man who is half decent will have been snapped up long ago! Will I just be left with Ns and Ps to choose from now???
If mine had been 'normal', say the 50% of the time when he was nice was more like 95% of the time, we'd have been living together happily long ago. He used to make comments about proposing and having kids. Then he'd spoil things and would make my brain hurt with his justifications as to why he screwed up.
I can't get my head around it. I think that he's probably lonely now, very lonely. When he D&D'd last Christmas, he said that the few weeks after were the loneliest he'd ever had. I have no doubt that he'll be feeling lonely again now. He had a close relationship and now he is struggling to develop friendships to fill the gap in his life.
I can't understand why they would ruin something so good. I can only think that they have such low self-esteem and are so disordered deep down that they have to sabotage anything that's good in their lives because they don't feel they deserved it.
When things were good with him, I felt so ridiculously happy that I almost felt guilty for it! Perhaps that's how they feel but on a much bigger scale.
I've actually wondered about asking people (my friends and family) what they thought of him. If they can say that they felt that sense of unease, that it would make me feel like it wasn't me.
I know a lot of people didn't like XN very much but he didn't usually make an effort with my friends. The few people he did make an effort with did seem to like him. One of his friends (now D&D'd) even told me once to stop "persecuting XN"!
A friend who works with XN told me that he has been stressed and chaotic. She noticed this before he and I had split up. He also told me himself that he'd been rude to a few people in work too but didn't seem bothered.
My friend told me yesterday that she's seen his anger get out of hand in work recently (a result of not having me to blame and take it on now perhaps) and that someone quite senior at their organisation is having serious doubts about him.
Hearing things like that make me feel so relieved. However, I have to admit that it also makes me want to give him a hug....I feel sorry for him.
I think mine is borderline as well as an N. A book I read said that 'borderline' is an old term and that some groups want it to be renamed 'emotional regulation disorder'.
Mine wanted to be normal. He was happiest when he was 'acting normal' because he made him feel that he was normal. He knew he was different and that caused him a lot of depression and frustration, which is why the Asperger's diagnosis that he initially had (now proved not to be true - and anyway, he's a liar, which does rule out AS!) seemed to make sense.
I think I may ask a few people what they thought about him. When I was with him, I knew people thought he was odd. My mum said she could see he had mental problems, another friend* told me he thought XN was "f*cked in the head" after he'd gone mad in a hotel room one evening. Most people thought he was boring. Other people expressed concern to me at spending time with him. "He's fine when you get to know him", I would say, "he's just shy and a bit depressed".
* The trouble is, that same friend (who I've had since I was 16 and I was not impressed) came onto me one night when his g/friend was asleep upstairs. They then had a physical fight and I had to separate them twice.
So everytime XN showed himself up, something else would happen to normalise his behaviour to me!
He's been offered jobs in the last few years by people who have worked with him and think he's really good.
He can attract friends.
He dresses well.
He has attracted many women, and up to when he was seeing me, broke up with the 2 significant previous gfriends that he had (so his choice, not their's).
I still can't get my head around quite what's happened with him.
I thought mine was the whole package. I'm now 33 and am worrying that any man who is half decent will have been snapped up long ago! Will I just be left with Ns and Ps to choose from now???
If mine had been 'normal', say the 50% of the time when he was nice was more like 95% of the time, we'd have been living together happily long ago. He used to make comments about proposing and having kids. Then he'd spoil things and would make my brain hurt with his justifications as to why he screwed up.
I can't get my head around it. I think that he's probably lonely now, very lonely. When he D&D'd last Christmas, he said that the few weeks after were the loneliest he'd ever had. I have no doubt that he'll be feeling lonely again now. He had a close relationship and now he is struggling to develop friendships to fill the gap in his life.
I can't understand why they would ruin something so good. I can only think that they have such low self-esteem and are so disordered deep down that they have to sabotage anything that's good in their lives because they don't feel they deserved it.
When things were good with him, I felt so ridiculously happy that I almost felt guilty for it! Perhaps that's how they feel but on a much bigger scale.
I've actually wondered about asking people (my friends and family) what they thought of him. If they can say that they felt that sense of unease, that it would make me feel like it wasn't me.
I know a lot of people didn't like XN very much but he didn't usually make an effort with my friends. The few people he did make an effort with did seem to like him. One of his friends (now D&D'd) even told me once to stop "persecuting XN"!
A friend who works with XN told me that he has been stressed and chaotic. She noticed this before he and I had split up. He also told me himself that he'd been rude to a few people in work too but didn't seem bothered.
My friend told me yesterday that she's seen his anger get out of hand in work recently (a result of not having me to blame and take it on now perhaps) and that someone quite senior at their organisation is having serious doubts about him.
Hearing things like that make me feel so relieved. However, I have to admit that it also makes me want to give him a hug....I feel sorry for him.
I think mine is borderline as well as an N. A book I read said that 'borderline' is an old term and that some groups want it to be renamed 'emotional regulation disorder'.
Mine wanted to be normal. He was happiest when he was 'acting normal' because he made him feel that he was normal. He knew he was different and that caused him a lot of depression and frustration, which is why the Asperger's diagnosis that he initially had (now proved not to be true - and anyway, he's a liar, which does rule out AS!) seemed to make sense.
I think I may ask a few people what they thought about him. When I was with him, I knew people thought he was odd. My mum said she could see he had mental problems, another friend* told me he thought XN was "f*cked in the head" after he'd gone mad in a hotel room one evening. Most people thought he was boring. Other people expressed concern to me at spending time with him. "He's fine when you get to know him", I would say, "he's just shy and a bit depressed".
* The trouble is, that same friend (who I've had since I was 16 and I was not impressed) came onto me one night when his g/friend was asleep upstairs. They then had a physical fight and I had to separate them twice.
So everytime XN showed himself up, something else would happen to normalise his behaviour to me!
Saturday, 12 September 2009
Red flags I ignored
These all happened in the first 6 months of our relationship:
- He wouldn't make small talk with people. I realised quite quickly that this was because he just wasn't interested in other people (though no doubt he's making an effort with his new little group of twenty something friends).
- We joined a book group. He decided that the books we read were "sh1t" and stopped going. The other group members thought he was weird and didn't feel comfortable around him. One girl nearly pulled out of a trip we made to the Bronte house in Yorkshire because she didn't want to be around him.
- He stood me up not long after we'd first slept together to go and take drugs with some people from work.
- He looked at other women in front of me and then would look at me with a grin as if to say, "isn't it great that there's such a babe in here tonight!" He claimed afterwards that he didn't know how to behave in relationships because he said he'd never really had a proper relationship before - the two previous g/friends he'd had didn't count apparently (and he'll be saying about our 6 year r/ship now too). However, he didn't ever criticise the g/friends at all.
- He'd come back from travelling and was living with his parents. (It took him 5 years to move out.)
- He was envious of all his "friends" (the ones he'd discarded) for having direction and earning lots of money.
- He placed value on earning a lot of money in a job rather than on having job satisfaction.
- He told me he'd never really loved anyone (only a few months ago I saw that he'd written that in a book that he started writing his anxieties in at his therapist's suggestion).
- He had no friends from his 2 years of travelling and he'd cut off all his friends from pre-travelling apart from one school friend because they "made him feel bad".
- He said to me that relationships work best when one partner adores the other person more. I tried to point out that relationships work best when both partners adore each other and support each other.
- He didn't like my dog. Everyone likes my dog! He had no warmth towards my cat and dog. He saw them as irritations.
- He kept spent money on clothes etc even though he wasn't earning any money when he got back from travelling. He got himself into huge debt.
- His mum paid £9000 for a new car for him.
- He lied to me about what he was doing so he could go out and take drugs. When I asked him why he lied, he blamed me and the reaction that I "would have had". Of course, by that time I was angry. A self-fulfilling prophecy.
- After the 2nd time we slept together, he went off to a friend's house for the day, and "forgot" to reply to a text message that I sent him that morning until I got in touch again.
- I asked him if he liked this girl he worked with that I was feeling intimidated by and he said that she "was out of his league so there'd be no point fancying her".
- Not long after this happened, he raged at me one evening because I was "getting at him" and, after shouting at me whilst I sat and sobbed, he left the house, but came back in again to shout "tw@t" at me.
- He wouldn't come and meet me for lunch one day but went and met his mum instead, even though he was living with his parents, because she "needed a boost".
- He would flirt with me by e-mail and text and be really cute but in person was cold and could barely make eye contact.
- The first ever present he bought me was a CD he'd liked from years before that he thought I would like too. (I didn't.)
- One night I asked him (over the phone) why he was being so horrible to me. He sneered back 'oh pleeease give me another chance!' in a very sarcastic voice.
- I sent him a long e-mail one day setting out how I was feeling about him. He didn't reply. When I asked him why he hadn't replied to my e-mail, he said, impatiently, "I didn't even read it!"
- One of our ex-colleagues, who was a trained MH social worker, told me that he thought XN had a personality disorder and his nickname for me was 'victim'.
When he wasn't being like this, he was being thoughtful and sweet and sensitive and kind. For example, the first ever birthday present he bought me was an acre of rainforest because he knew I was always nagging people to do their bit for their enviroment.
- He wouldn't make small talk with people. I realised quite quickly that this was because he just wasn't interested in other people (though no doubt he's making an effort with his new little group of twenty something friends).
- We joined a book group. He decided that the books we read were "sh1t" and stopped going. The other group members thought he was weird and didn't feel comfortable around him. One girl nearly pulled out of a trip we made to the Bronte house in Yorkshire because she didn't want to be around him.
- He stood me up not long after we'd first slept together to go and take drugs with some people from work.
- He looked at other women in front of me and then would look at me with a grin as if to say, "isn't it great that there's such a babe in here tonight!" He claimed afterwards that he didn't know how to behave in relationships because he said he'd never really had a proper relationship before - the two previous g/friends he'd had didn't count apparently (and he'll be saying about our 6 year r/ship now too). However, he didn't ever criticise the g/friends at all.
- He'd come back from travelling and was living with his parents. (It took him 5 years to move out.)
- He was envious of all his "friends" (the ones he'd discarded) for having direction and earning lots of money.
- He placed value on earning a lot of money in a job rather than on having job satisfaction.
- He told me he'd never really loved anyone (only a few months ago I saw that he'd written that in a book that he started writing his anxieties in at his therapist's suggestion).
- He had no friends from his 2 years of travelling and he'd cut off all his friends from pre-travelling apart from one school friend because they "made him feel bad".
- He said to me that relationships work best when one partner adores the other person more. I tried to point out that relationships work best when both partners adore each other and support each other.
- He didn't like my dog. Everyone likes my dog! He had no warmth towards my cat and dog. He saw them as irritations.
- He kept spent money on clothes etc even though he wasn't earning any money when he got back from travelling. He got himself into huge debt.
- His mum paid £9000 for a new car for him.
- He lied to me about what he was doing so he could go out and take drugs. When I asked him why he lied, he blamed me and the reaction that I "would have had". Of course, by that time I was angry. A self-fulfilling prophecy.
- After the 2nd time we slept together, he went off to a friend's house for the day, and "forgot" to reply to a text message that I sent him that morning until I got in touch again.
- I asked him if he liked this girl he worked with that I was feeling intimidated by and he said that she "was out of his league so there'd be no point fancying her".
- Not long after this happened, he raged at me one evening because I was "getting at him" and, after shouting at me whilst I sat and sobbed, he left the house, but came back in again to shout "tw@t" at me.
- He wouldn't come and meet me for lunch one day but went and met his mum instead, even though he was living with his parents, because she "needed a boost".
- He would flirt with me by e-mail and text and be really cute but in person was cold and could barely make eye contact.
- The first ever present he bought me was a CD he'd liked from years before that he thought I would like too. (I didn't.)
- One night I asked him (over the phone) why he was being so horrible to me. He sneered back 'oh pleeease give me another chance!' in a very sarcastic voice.
- I sent him a long e-mail one day setting out how I was feeling about him. He didn't reply. When I asked him why he hadn't replied to my e-mail, he said, impatiently, "I didn't even read it!"
- One of our ex-colleagues, who was a trained MH social worker, told me that he thought XN had a personality disorder and his nickname for me was 'victim'.
When he wasn't being like this, he was being thoughtful and sweet and sensitive and kind. For example, the first ever birthday present he bought me was an acre of rainforest because he knew I was always nagging people to do their bit for their enviroment.
Monday, 7 September 2009
Driving
I always feel worse when I'm driving. I've had to drive a lot in the last couple of weeks and I find my mind wandering. When you're in the car, you can't go and do something else to distract yourself. You just have to sit there and hope that something good comes on the radio to take your mind off it.
It's 2 hours to my parents' house and I'm having to go down every weekend to help out with my aunt (who has a broken leg) whilst my parents are away. I dread sitting in the car for that time. It gives me way too time to think about the N and no way of distracting myself.
I was reading some stuff on here last night and on Baggage Reclaim, and reading others' almost virtually identical stories of the behaviour that their Ns meted out makes me wonder why the hell I stayed with mine for so long. When you're in it, for some reason it doesn't seem so bad as when you hear other people's experiences of almost the same behaviour (or is that just me?). I felt really depressed last night at having let someone treat me so badly for so long.
I've been isolating myself too. I think I posted something similar yesterday in a thread about feeling ashamed. I've been staying away from a lot of people and only doing really "safe" things. I've been feeling rude and wish I could just get over it and be back to normal (whatever that is). I want to be my friendly, bubbly self again. But right now, I feel like retreating. I'm scared of seeing people who will ask how I am. I'm not in a good state but people don't want to hear that - they want to hear that you're fine, so I've decided to stay on retreat til I can tell people I'm fine and mean it.
Saturday, 5 September 2009
A quiz I will be asking any new guy to complete
1. You are in a restaurant with your girlfriend. The food is disappointing. Do you:
a. Go into a sulk and stop talking because the food isn't as good as you think it should be?
b. Make the best of it because you are just happy to be with your girlfriend and make a note not to visit that restaurant again?
2. You are out for the evening with your girlfriend but are feeling a little tired. Do you:
a. Go into a sulk because you are tired and your girlfriend hasn't telepathically realised that you are?
b. tell your girlfriend that you are a little tired and ask if you skip dessert so that you can go home early?
3. You are on your way to a place 3 hours away that you wanted to go to and your gf has offered to drive because your car needs some work doing to it. When your gf asks for directions whilst you are speaking at her, do you:
a. Start screaming at her whilst she is driving at 70mph on the motorway because you've been interrupted, refuse to give any directions, and leave her to balance the map on the steering wheel whilst you nearly burst her ear drum by shouting at her for not asking for directions "in the correct manner"?
b. Apologise for leaving it so late to help with directions, and make sure she knows which lane to get in on the motorway asap.
4. You've travelled halfway across the world to see your gf who has been away for 6 weeks. It's the second day of the holiday, and is Valentine's Day, and you're having a lovely coastal walk. Your gf is telling you about a friend of her's who has been quite rude. Do you:
a. Start shouting that she is clearly talking about you and is having a go at you whilst pretending to talk about her friend, go into a sulk for the rest of the week, and spoil the Valentine's Day dinner that she had organised for you that evening?
b. Listen, agree that the friend has been rude, enjoy the rest of the coastal walk and the Valentine's Day and the rest of the holiday.
5. It's your girlfriend's birthday. You had a row the night before. Do you:
a. Don't even bother to send a text message wishing her a happy birthday, and, when you speak next, tell her that she's not your gf anyway, so she doesn't merit a present or card?
b. Turn up and try and patch things up with her. It is her birthday after all!
6. It's a Saturday and your gf has to go into work which is near where you are living with your parents. Your mum works in the same place and has had to go into work that day too. Your gf asks if you will meet her for lunch that day. Do you:
a. Say no, because it is too far for you to go, but turn up and take your mum out for lunch anyway, and then claim later that it's because "your mum needs a boost".
b. Meet your gf for lunch. You don't see her all that often and you live with your parents after all.
7. It's a gorgeous Sunday morning. The sun is shining. You had a lovely, romantic evening with your gf the night before. The whole day is stretching ahead of you both. Do you:
a. Get up, pace the house, and then, following a tantrum, go into work all day because you "just have to get on", and, anyway, your mum does that every weekend so it's normal.
b. Stay in bed and cuddle your gf before getting up for a leisurely Sunday. That's what Sundays are for, after all!
8. Your gf is sobbing in front of you following an insensitive comment that you made. Do you:
a. Sneer at her and tell her that she's being dramatic and that you won't let her win the little game that she's playing?
b. Feel terrible, cuddle her and reassure her that you didn't mean the insensitive comment that you made, and make a mental note to not be insensitive again.
9. Your gf's brother has just had a bad accident. She's come back home after a long drive to see him in the hospital. Do you:
a. Open the door to her, tell her that she's lucky to have you there because she's so late back, then sit in front of the tv and sulk for the rest of the night whilst she sits in the bath crying?
b. Open the door to her, take her bags, give her a big hug, let her cry on your shoulder, and give her lots of tlc - she needs it!
10. Your gf is having a few problems in work and tells you about them over dinner that evening. Do you:
a. Listen for 2 minutes, then call her a tw@t because she's just "venting" and you think venting is pointless?
b. Listen to her, suggest some things she can do, and ask her again in a few days' time how things are going?
Your answers: mostly As. Well, you do sound like a lovely guy but I'm afraid that I'd rather wait til penguins can go sliding around on the ice in hell before I have a relationship with you. Have a nice life!
Mostly Bs - yay! It's a normal guy!
a. Go into a sulk and stop talking because the food isn't as good as you think it should be?
b. Make the best of it because you are just happy to be with your girlfriend and make a note not to visit that restaurant again?
2. You are out for the evening with your girlfriend but are feeling a little tired. Do you:
a. Go into a sulk because you are tired and your girlfriend hasn't telepathically realised that you are?
b. tell your girlfriend that you are a little tired and ask if you skip dessert so that you can go home early?
3. You are on your way to a place 3 hours away that you wanted to go to and your gf has offered to drive because your car needs some work doing to it. When your gf asks for directions whilst you are speaking at her, do you:
a. Start screaming at her whilst she is driving at 70mph on the motorway because you've been interrupted, refuse to give any directions, and leave her to balance the map on the steering wheel whilst you nearly burst her ear drum by shouting at her for not asking for directions "in the correct manner"?
b. Apologise for leaving it so late to help with directions, and make sure she knows which lane to get in on the motorway asap.
4. You've travelled halfway across the world to see your gf who has been away for 6 weeks. It's the second day of the holiday, and is Valentine's Day, and you're having a lovely coastal walk. Your gf is telling you about a friend of her's who has been quite rude. Do you:
a. Start shouting that she is clearly talking about you and is having a go at you whilst pretending to talk about her friend, go into a sulk for the rest of the week, and spoil the Valentine's Day dinner that she had organised for you that evening?
b. Listen, agree that the friend has been rude, enjoy the rest of the coastal walk and the Valentine's Day and the rest of the holiday.
5. It's your girlfriend's birthday. You had a row the night before. Do you:
a. Don't even bother to send a text message wishing her a happy birthday, and, when you speak next, tell her that she's not your gf anyway, so she doesn't merit a present or card?
b. Turn up and try and patch things up with her. It is her birthday after all!
6. It's a Saturday and your gf has to go into work which is near where you are living with your parents. Your mum works in the same place and has had to go into work that day too. Your gf asks if you will meet her for lunch that day. Do you:
a. Say no, because it is too far for you to go, but turn up and take your mum out for lunch anyway, and then claim later that it's because "your mum needs a boost".
b. Meet your gf for lunch. You don't see her all that often and you live with your parents after all.
7. It's a gorgeous Sunday morning. The sun is shining. You had a lovely, romantic evening with your gf the night before. The whole day is stretching ahead of you both. Do you:
a. Get up, pace the house, and then, following a tantrum, go into work all day because you "just have to get on", and, anyway, your mum does that every weekend so it's normal.
b. Stay in bed and cuddle your gf before getting up for a leisurely Sunday. That's what Sundays are for, after all!
8. Your gf is sobbing in front of you following an insensitive comment that you made. Do you:
a. Sneer at her and tell her that she's being dramatic and that you won't let her win the little game that she's playing?
b. Feel terrible, cuddle her and reassure her that you didn't mean the insensitive comment that you made, and make a mental note to not be insensitive again.
9. Your gf's brother has just had a bad accident. She's come back home after a long drive to see him in the hospital. Do you:
a. Open the door to her, tell her that she's lucky to have you there because she's so late back, then sit in front of the tv and sulk for the rest of the night whilst she sits in the bath crying?
b. Open the door to her, take her bags, give her a big hug, let her cry on your shoulder, and give her lots of tlc - she needs it!
10. Your gf is having a few problems in work and tells you about them over dinner that evening. Do you:
a. Listen for 2 minutes, then call her a tw@t because she's just "venting" and you think venting is pointless?
b. Listen to her, suggest some things she can do, and ask her again in a few days' time how things are going?
Your answers: mostly As. Well, you do sound like a lovely guy but I'm afraid that I'd rather wait til penguins can go sliding around on the ice in hell before I have a relationship with you. Have a nice life!
Mostly Bs - yay! It's a normal guy!
Wednesday, 2 September 2009
How did I not go mad?
I came across these old texts from XN last night when reading through one of my old diaries. It's helped to see how ridiculous the situation I was in was. I got D&D'ed every couple of weeks!
Not sure how I kept my sanity:
25th August '08:
Him: "You think because you think about me a lot of the time, that this buys you justification. It doesn't. You've caused me a lot of stress over the years and I'm tired of it. And to be traduced for going to a strip club on your brother's stag [when he told me that I was "just jealous because other women have better bodies than me"] and then failing to understand that it had driven you to despair is just downright insensible."
Later:
Him: "I'm not going to beg you to trust me. I don't think you've got it in you. When have you ever made me feel good? You belittle my anxiety. What's worse was that when you were stressed at work you didn't want me around [because he shouted at me and called me a tw@t]. When I was, I was just being silly and you got into me about that and took it personally. Empathy?"
Later:
Him: "I'm understanding more now. I've been unfair to you before. You've been telling me what you need. I've just thought you were trying to control me. Sorry again."
And:
Him: "To get this anywhere near right with you, I have to put some thought into what I need from a relationship. Some of that is physical closeness, not sex I mean. I like lying on the sofa with you more than most things I do, including golf!! I need to think harder about how to be with you practically. Like when to listen, when to try to cheer you up, when to shut up. I feel really ignorant about these things and it scares me.
I need someone to help me when I'm stressed and to shut me up when I lose my temper, because that's usually when I feel threatened, not because I'm a bully. I felt really lonely today and I know that's because I've messed things up with you. Can we talk now about what to do next?"
I replied (can't remember what with) and got this:
Him:"I'm going on the offensive now. I'm tired of this. Fact, I've never looked at another woman. Fact, most guys can go to a strip club on their gf's brother's stag do. I've said a lot of stupid things inbetween. In part because of the way you've handled this. It takes 2 people to mess things up this badly."
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A few days later:
30th August '08:
Him: "I never want to see you again. Have a nice life".
----------------------------------------------
1st Sept '08:
Him: "I'm missing you now. How's your sore throat and stuff? I'm day dreaming about cuddling you. It was so nice when you came in for a cuddle last night."
----------------------------------------------
After another D&D:
24th Sept '08:
Him:"I was just looking through some old files and I saw a picture of you at Watson's Bay wearing your white dress. I was reminded how beautiful you are."
----------------------------------------------
After another D&D:
13th Oct '08:
Him:"What's stopping me from comforting you?" [about the strip club thing. I was still upset about it]
Me: "I don't know. What did stop you?"
Him: "I think I felt it was just another in your list of complaints. I've become very defensive."
----------------------------------------------
After another D&D:
Me: "I still can't forgive you for hurting me so badly. I can't do anything for you til I get over that and you won't help with that because it's too hard for you for some reason or you just can't be bothered."
Him: "Yawn."
Followed by:
Him: "Go and find youself someone better then."
Then later:
Him: "I don't like your red jumper. You wore it the first time we met. In spite of that, I thought you looked like the woman I'd been waiting for all my life."
Then:
Him: "We still need to talk. I can't just walk away from you."
----------------------------------------------
After another D&D when I'd asked him to be dynamic and apologise to me:
30th Oct' 08
Him: "Dynamic? You don't encourage that behaviour in me, what with your negativity towards me. It doesn't encourage risk taking and I'm not a confident person anyway."
----------------------------------------------
Boxing Day, after being spectacularly D&D'd the weekend before:
26th December '08:
Him:"I've not dumped you because I can't meet your needs."
Me: "You've dumped me because you don't wantto meet my needs!"
Him: "I'm sorry I shouted again. I know you're the most attractive woman I've been with and was always proud to be seen with you. I couldn't make you see it."
Later:
Him:"I was more mad than you and needed more emotional support than you. That's why it never worked out. It's the wrong dynamic."
Me: "Eh? Two people are supposed to support each other. It can't all be one way. Do you want a girlfriend or a nurse?"
Him:"I never said one way. I mean relative needs. Do you think giving any support means you're a nurse or that you don't get any back yourself?"
Me: "Er...I'm confused. On the one hand, I've been dumped because you can't meet my emotional needs. Yet I'm also dumped because I didn't meet your's enough."
Then from me:
"I could see you were unhappy and I wanted to help (which sometimes involved telling you things you didn't want to hear) but I can't help someone who is lashing out at me and blaming all their problems on me when that's undeserved. "
Him: "That not how it happened."
Later, when I said that I thought he would find someone else first:
Him: "I don't think I will. You've witnessed my attempts to chat people up. It's not something I'm good at. You know me, I'll try too hard, arse it up and then get annoyed with myself, slowly falling into a spiral of dysfunction ending in punching the wall."
Me: "Surely now you've got rid of the biggest problem in your life, you'll be able to function normally and women will fall at your feet."
Him: "You weren't really a problem."
Then nothing for a few weeks til I sent him some of my diary entries and persuaded him to go for therapy, which he did.
I had this for 6 years.
Not sure how I kept my sanity:
25th August '08:
Him: "You think because you think about me a lot of the time, that this buys you justification. It doesn't. You've caused me a lot of stress over the years and I'm tired of it. And to be traduced for going to a strip club on your brother's stag [when he told me that I was "just jealous because other women have better bodies than me"] and then failing to understand that it had driven you to despair is just downright insensible."
Later:
Him: "I'm not going to beg you to trust me. I don't think you've got it in you. When have you ever made me feel good? You belittle my anxiety. What's worse was that when you were stressed at work you didn't want me around [because he shouted at me and called me a tw@t]. When I was, I was just being silly and you got into me about that and took it personally. Empathy?"
Later:
Him: "I'm understanding more now. I've been unfair to you before. You've been telling me what you need. I've just thought you were trying to control me. Sorry again."
And:
Him: "To get this anywhere near right with you, I have to put some thought into what I need from a relationship. Some of that is physical closeness, not sex I mean. I like lying on the sofa with you more than most things I do, including golf!! I need to think harder about how to be with you practically. Like when to listen, when to try to cheer you up, when to shut up. I feel really ignorant about these things and it scares me.
I need someone to help me when I'm stressed and to shut me up when I lose my temper, because that's usually when I feel threatened, not because I'm a bully. I felt really lonely today and I know that's because I've messed things up with you. Can we talk now about what to do next?"
I replied (can't remember what with) and got this:
Him:"I'm going on the offensive now. I'm tired of this. Fact, I've never looked at another woman. Fact, most guys can go to a strip club on their gf's brother's stag do. I've said a lot of stupid things inbetween. In part because of the way you've handled this. It takes 2 people to mess things up this badly."
----------------------------------------------
A few days later:
30th August '08:
Him: "I never want to see you again. Have a nice life".
----------------------------------------------
1st Sept '08:
Him: "I'm missing you now. How's your sore throat and stuff? I'm day dreaming about cuddling you. It was so nice when you came in for a cuddle last night."
----------------------------------------------
After another D&D:
24th Sept '08:
Him:"I was just looking through some old files and I saw a picture of you at Watson's Bay wearing your white dress. I was reminded how beautiful you are."
----------------------------------------------
After another D&D:
13th Oct '08:
Him:"What's stopping me from comforting you?" [about the strip club thing. I was still upset about it]
Me: "I don't know. What did stop you?"
Him: "I think I felt it was just another in your list of complaints. I've become very defensive."
----------------------------------------------
After another D&D:
Me: "I still can't forgive you for hurting me so badly. I can't do anything for you til I get over that and you won't help with that because it's too hard for you for some reason or you just can't be bothered."
Him: "Yawn."
Followed by:
Him: "Go and find youself someone better then."
Then later:
Him: "I don't like your red jumper. You wore it the first time we met. In spite of that, I thought you looked like the woman I'd been waiting for all my life."
Then:
Him: "We still need to talk. I can't just walk away from you."
----------------------------------------------
After another D&D when I'd asked him to be dynamic and apologise to me:
30th Oct' 08
Him: "Dynamic? You don't encourage that behaviour in me, what with your negativity towards me. It doesn't encourage risk taking and I'm not a confident person anyway."
----------------------------------------------
Boxing Day, after being spectacularly D&D'd the weekend before:
26th December '08:
Him:"I've not dumped you because I can't meet your needs."
Me: "You've dumped me because you don't wantto meet my needs!"
Him: "I'm sorry I shouted again. I know you're the most attractive woman I've been with and was always proud to be seen with you. I couldn't make you see it."
Later:
Him:"I was more mad than you and needed more emotional support than you. That's why it never worked out. It's the wrong dynamic."
Me: "Eh? Two people are supposed to support each other. It can't all be one way. Do you want a girlfriend or a nurse?"
Him:"I never said one way. I mean relative needs. Do you think giving any support means you're a nurse or that you don't get any back yourself?"
Me: "Er...I'm confused. On the one hand, I've been dumped because you can't meet my emotional needs. Yet I'm also dumped because I didn't meet your's enough."
Then from me:
"I could see you were unhappy and I wanted to help (which sometimes involved telling you things you didn't want to hear) but I can't help someone who is lashing out at me and blaming all their problems on me when that's undeserved. "
Him: "That not how it happened."
Later, when I said that I thought he would find someone else first:
Him: "I don't think I will. You've witnessed my attempts to chat people up. It's not something I'm good at. You know me, I'll try too hard, arse it up and then get annoyed with myself, slowly falling into a spiral of dysfunction ending in punching the wall."
Me: "Surely now you've got rid of the biggest problem in your life, you'll be able to function normally and women will fall at your feet."
Him: "You weren't really a problem."
Then nothing for a few weeks til I sent him some of my diary entries and persuaded him to go for therapy, which he did.
I had this for 6 years.
Tuesday, 1 September 2009
Getting tempted to dip...don't know why
I've been doing so well! NC will be 8 weeks this Friday, no dipping for ~6 weeks of that time.
But I am finding myself more and more tempted to check his facebook activities (not that I can see a lot but I can see who his friends are and what he's been saying on other friends' pages).
I don't know why I want to do it. When I did it before, I saw stuff that did actually make me feel better for going NC. He looked a pathetic loser and he was obviously on facebook a lot. Before, when he was with me, he wasn't registered on it til I persuaded him to join, and even then he barely used it (had no friends to interact with!). When I dipped I saw that he was clearly on there more because he was lonely and was trying to garner new NS.
I remember staring at the photo of one of his work colleagues, a girl with long, dark hair (I have long dark hair - that seemed to be his "type") and wondering if she would have been his next 'victim'. It was after obsessing about her for about 10 minutes one night that I went on the chatroom and others told me that I would feel worse after I dipped than I did before.
And I haven't since. Nothing.
But now I am weakening and I really don't know why. Reassurance that he really is the saddo that I thought he was?
I know it would be gutting to see any indication that he has moved on with someone else. My instinct tells me that he hasn't; not because he's not over me, but because he has such poor social skills and people saw him as a bit weird (past behaviour being a good predictor of future behaviour and all that) that I find it highly unlikely that he'll have been able to charm someone else so quickly. (He didn't charm me in the beginning - he was rubbish!)
I think that, if I saw any indication that he had got someone else, then it might make me question if he wasn't the depressed, miserable, self-absorbed idiot that I thought he was.
When I look back at his life, I know that he was miserable and lonely for most of it. He's had very few relationships and they were relatively short lived. I know that anything I see on his page would be fake. I don't know why I feel the need to check it and reaffirm to myself that this is the case.
But I am finding myself more and more tempted to check his facebook activities (not that I can see a lot but I can see who his friends are and what he's been saying on other friends' pages).
I don't know why I want to do it. When I did it before, I saw stuff that did actually make me feel better for going NC. He looked a pathetic loser and he was obviously on facebook a lot. Before, when he was with me, he wasn't registered on it til I persuaded him to join, and even then he barely used it (had no friends to interact with!). When I dipped I saw that he was clearly on there more because he was lonely and was trying to garner new NS.
I remember staring at the photo of one of his work colleagues, a girl with long, dark hair (I have long dark hair - that seemed to be his "type") and wondering if she would have been his next 'victim'. It was after obsessing about her for about 10 minutes one night that I went on the chatroom and others told me that I would feel worse after I dipped than I did before.
And I haven't since. Nothing.
But now I am weakening and I really don't know why. Reassurance that he really is the saddo that I thought he was?
I know it would be gutting to see any indication that he has moved on with someone else. My instinct tells me that he hasn't; not because he's not over me, but because he has such poor social skills and people saw him as a bit weird (past behaviour being a good predictor of future behaviour and all that) that I find it highly unlikely that he'll have been able to charm someone else so quickly. (He didn't charm me in the beginning - he was rubbish!)
I think that, if I saw any indication that he had got someone else, then it might make me question if he wasn't the depressed, miserable, self-absorbed idiot that I thought he was.
When I look back at his life, I know that he was miserable and lonely for most of it. He's had very few relationships and they were relatively short lived. I know that anything I see on his page would be fake. I don't know why I feel the need to check it and reaffirm to myself that this is the case.
A little less conversation.....a little more lecturing please
Mine didn't brag obviously - he was quite self-effacing - but what he would do, when he wasn't sitting there like a zombie (90% of the time) was lecture people and that was his way of coming across as superior.
I'd ring after a bad day at work and maybe mention some work I was doing that involved doctors in some vague way (we both work for the NHS). I'd get him going on about all he knew about doctors, they were like this, they were like that. He'd get really worked up and I'd get bored and start thinking 'I want my tea now'.
If we went out, and someone engaged him in conversation, he'd bore them to death. I remember once he lectured this guy about politics. He was self-aware enough to realise that this guy had been scared by the onslaught but never honed his small talk skills. Why would he want to when other people are so uninteresting? And there I was thinking he just lacked the social skills required to ask people how they were...I did realise quite early on that he just didn't give a stuff.
XN had joined the Labour party but has never voted - he just didn't see the point! Such an expert on politics that he couldn't be bothered to get himself down to the polling station once every 4 years amd there he was lecturing people.
He'd studied philosophy at uni and was fond of waffling on about what Engels would have said or so and so's theory of something or other. If he upset me, he would never say sorry but would start lecturing me about why I was wrong, throwing in some basic philosophical concepts to completely throw the conversation off course. I didn't do philosophy so he usually managed to throw me completely, whilst making me believe he was oh so clever and how stupid I was for not knowing these things.
He was fond of going on about literature as well even though he hadn't read all that much really.
He used to rage about how people fixate on the opinions of literary critics like F.R. Leavis and how they were so narrow and that's why rubbish books like "Wuthering Heights" are still so popular....and he wouldn't read a book by a woman anyway, especially ones by the Bronte sisters who lived in the middle of nowhere so what did they know about life, rant rant rant.
Of course, N knew best about everything. And I believed him because I didn't understand him most of the time so thought he must be so much cleverer than little me.
I'd ring after a bad day at work and maybe mention some work I was doing that involved doctors in some vague way (we both work for the NHS). I'd get him going on about all he knew about doctors, they were like this, they were like that. He'd get really worked up and I'd get bored and start thinking 'I want my tea now'.
If we went out, and someone engaged him in conversation, he'd bore them to death. I remember once he lectured this guy about politics. He was self-aware enough to realise that this guy had been scared by the onslaught but never honed his small talk skills. Why would he want to when other people are so uninteresting? And there I was thinking he just lacked the social skills required to ask people how they were...I did realise quite early on that he just didn't give a stuff.
XN had joined the Labour party but has never voted - he just didn't see the point! Such an expert on politics that he couldn't be bothered to get himself down to the polling station once every 4 years amd there he was lecturing people.
He'd studied philosophy at uni and was fond of waffling on about what Engels would have said or so and so's theory of something or other. If he upset me, he would never say sorry but would start lecturing me about why I was wrong, throwing in some basic philosophical concepts to completely throw the conversation off course. I didn't do philosophy so he usually managed to throw me completely, whilst making me believe he was oh so clever and how stupid I was for not knowing these things.
He was fond of going on about literature as well even though he hadn't read all that much really.
He used to rage about how people fixate on the opinions of literary critics like F.R. Leavis and how they were so narrow and that's why rubbish books like "Wuthering Heights" are still so popular....and he wouldn't read a book by a woman anyway, especially ones by the Bronte sisters who lived in the middle of nowhere so what did they know about life, rant rant rant.
Of course, N knew best about everything. And I believed him because I didn't understand him most of the time so thought he must be so much cleverer than little me.
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